Animation &Animation Artifacts &Disney &Models 02 Dec 2010 09:34 am
Deja poses
- Karl Essex read on my blog about Glen Keane‘s poses and saw some negative comments about Andreas Deja which I rebutted. He had a number of artwork pieces that he sent me to post. There’re no cliched poses among them; I like Deja‘s work.
1Hercules 1
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Hercules 2
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Hercules 3
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Hercules 4
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Lilo from Lilo & Stitch
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Jafar from Aladdin
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from Deja’s sketchbook King Triton from The Little Mermaid
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Roger Rabbit
on 02 Dec 2010 at 10:28 am 1.Richard O'Connor said …
While many of these character designs leave me cold, the posing makes for interesting comparison to the earlier post.
The left hand side drawing of the Rabbit made me chuckle, that’s great work.
on 02 Dec 2010 at 10:40 am 2.Mark said …
So devoid of character, personality, or point of view. Others have done these “poses” better–but after the Keane post recently, it’s particularly noticeable. Dejah is a fine draughtsman, but his insistence on surface over true character is ttiresome.
on 02 Dec 2010 at 10:50 am 3.Michael said …
Mark, your insistent attacks on Andreas Deja are not backed up by ANY of his work I’ve seen. His posing is not borrowed from any prior Disney animator; I can see that it comes out of the acting of the scenes. These Hercules models come from animated scenes and every drawing is generic to the scene and shows enormous emotion.
Sorry you can’t see it past some bias you have, but you obviously prefer Glen Keane’s attempts at recreating poses which imitate the dynamic tension of Frazetta. Unfortunately, that’s all they have going for them. Yet, Keane does pull off great scenes of animation consistently. Of course, your opinion is valued as a counter, but you offer no support in your comments. Pat Smith offered more by just saying he “liked” Keane’s drawings.
on 02 Dec 2010 at 11:32 am 4.Daniel Caylor said …
Well, I have a new respect for Deja with these two posts. Not that I didn’t find him amazing before. The funny thing is, this is just they’re production work.
Take a look at some of their personal stuff, zoo sketches, gesture sketching, etc. That’s where you see that Deja is very much the same, and Keane is not. By that I mean how close their personal work resembles their production work. Now this observation is just based on images I’ve seen from Deja’s sketchbook (which I own), and images I’ve seen on the internet from Keane’s recent show in Paris. I’d love it if you’d do a third post where you contrast the two using samples of this work as well. And if you care to make it a mind-bogglingly popular/incredible series, you could contrast how they both translate into animation.
As for these drawings, incredible draftsmanship no doubt, but I’m with Richard. There’s something about them that doesn’t light me up like Keane’s work. Whether it appeal or not I don’t know.
on 02 Dec 2010 at 11:34 am 5.ashton said …
Deja may be a subtler actor (and better designer I feel) but Glen Keane’s work has more appeal. Personally I think they’re both great for different reasons and see no need to choose one over the other.
on 02 Dec 2010 at 12:01 pm 6.Daniel Caylor said …
“I think they’re both great for different reasons and see no need to choose one over the other.”
Can’t we all just get along?
It’s an interesting analysis though.
on 02 Dec 2010 at 12:23 pm 7.Eric Noble said …
These are very good. The Hercules poses rub me the wrong way. The poses are fine, but the facial expressions I have seen before in other Disney characters. However, everything else is perfect. I love King Triton and Jafar. Wonderful!!
on 02 Dec 2010 at 12:30 pm 8.Mark said …
Why do you insist on calling my educated opinions “attacks” just because you do not like them? I’ve been in the business as long if not longer than you, and have a valid, strong, and informed point of view. Dejah’s drawings are nice, but truly lack personality or depth either still or in motion. He is a technician, but not a particularly good actor. He has shown the lack of breadth or depth in his body of work than to do anything but merely illustrate dialogue. Beyond that, he brings little to the table beyond good drawings. But good drawings DO NOT necessarily mean great animation.
on 02 Dec 2010 at 1:56 pm 9.Mario NC said …
I really like Deja’s style, but I believe that sometimes his posing is too “cerebral”. I don’t know how to explain it though; maybe it just doesn’t look spontaneous enough?? Like I said it’s just a personal feeling from my part which I can’t backup with evidence. But I do think that his his work on Lilo and Mickey is amazing.
on 02 Dec 2010 at 2:03 pm 10.Richard O'Connor said …
To “Mark”, it’s not Michael’s storied career with some of the greatest animation directors and animators in the history of our medium that makes his opinions more interesting than most.
It’s his ability to back his opinion with specific examples and see multiple sides to an issue. Even when I don’t agree with him, his line of inquiry is always respectable.
He doesn’t say his opinions are “educated”, he shows it.
That is the same thing we look for in films and characters -don’t go around saying “I’m smart”, show it to us.
on 02 Dec 2010 at 2:26 pm 11.Michael said …
Mark, you’re right, I shouldn’t call your comments “attacks”, but you do come on strong. I’m glad you have your opinion, and I respect it, but I also have mine and we don’t agree. C’est la vie.
You’re right, I don’t know anything about you – how could I. I still don’t know your last name. I also know a lot of people who’ve been in the business for a very long time, and they’re not all the cream of the crop – not that I think I am, either. I’m just offering my opinion, as you offer yours. That’s why I have a blog.
As I’ve said, I like Keane’s work in motion but think his model sheet posing is too arch for the other beginning animators who do everything to imitate him and use such poses in their less experienced hands. They just develop bad habits that get all Feature animation looking alike.
Mario NC, I agree that Dejas’ style can seem “cerebral” but that may be the thing I like about it.
on 02 Dec 2010 at 3:58 pm 12.MC said …
I find many of the Hercules faces – especially the first examples – to be extremely stereotypical of Disney work during this period. I like a lot of the other work, but Hercules was very boilerplace for me.
on 02 Dec 2010 at 4:17 pm 13.Ken said …
Andreas can only animate close-ups. His walks (Gaston and Jafar in particular)are terrible. Triton is very mushy. Tytla must have rolled over in his grave when he saw that.
on 02 Dec 2010 at 7:38 pm 14.karl said …
Ken, walk cycles and long shots are very often animated by staff animators. You may find that many of the scenes you are referring to are not his.
on 02 Dec 2010 at 8:07 pm 15.untangled said …
These drawings look fresher than Keane’s to me, but how original any Disney character treatment can really be? They are the way they are in order to make the whole formula work.
The humour in Disney films is based on the character attitude. Take that away and there will be nothing left to laugh at. The way the characters move (out of the attitude context) is not generally funny, there is nothing comical about the plots themselves (try to retell a Disney plot to get a few laughs), the designs by themselves (without the attitude poses) are rarelly funny, and the voice acting is based on the attitude intonations, it’s not really funny the way it sounds apart from that.
Smart ass verbal duels, comical love-hate tensions, arrogant character’s loss of dignity moments are needed in order to add some pepper to the otherwise sugary melodramatic content. Hence all the smirks, eyebrow action, fake one-sided smiles, skeptical frowning, sly side glances, nervous blabbering and other acting gems.
Of course some Disney artists draw these things more pronounced than the others (and mostly with tremendous skill), but innovation simply can’t be in their priority list.
on 02 Dec 2010 at 8:36 pm 16.Eric Noble said …
Innovation should always be the name of the game at Disney. It was that attitude that gave the company success in the first place.
on 02 Dec 2010 at 8:38 pm 17.Ken said …
karl, they are his scenes, I have the drafts.
on 02 Dec 2010 at 8:41 pm 18.untangled said …
Sure Eric, I agree: it should and it was there once.
on 03 Dec 2010 at 4:46 am 19.Steven Hartley said …
Ah yes, Andreas Deja was the head animator on “Who Framed Roger Rabbit?”